Post by malcolm on Jul 22, 2013 22:59:58 GMT -8
Just what happened on Mount Tabor?
Peter, James and John were told not to tell anyone of what they had seen, until after the resurrection. If they did, then why isn't this recorded in the gospels?
These are the three accounts of the Transfiguration -
Matthew 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Matthew 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Matthew 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Matthew 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Matthew 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Matthew 17:6 And when the disciples heard [it], they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
Matthew 17:7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
Matthew 17:8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
Matthew 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
Mark 9:2 And after six days Jesus taketh [with him] Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
Mark 9:3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
Mark 9:4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
Mark 9:5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Mark 9:6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.
Mark 9:7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
Mark 9:8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.
Mark 9:9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
Luke 9:28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
Luke 9:29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment [was] white [and] glistering.
Luke 9:30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
Luke 9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
Luke 9:32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.
Luke 9:33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.
Luke 9:34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.
Luke 9:35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him
Luke 9:36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept [it] close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen
So in Luke 9:36 they told no man in those days of what they had seen. In which case how did the scribe get hold of the story?
Maybe they went and told it to the Trees?
We also have something of a contradiction. In Matthew and Mark they were wide awake all the time, and not only awake, but frightened out of their silly minds. That makes sense - just think about it. If you are scared stiff would you then just lie down and have a good kip? Not on your Nelly. You would more than likely be half way down the hillside before the spooks (Moses and Elijah) looked at them.
Yet in Luke 9:32 they just decided to have a bit of a sleep.
I am also puzzled by this cloud. In Matthew the cloud is bright and overshadows them - this sounds a bit contradictory for a start. But let's suppose that it was something like a blurry UFO hovering above their heads.
Well, while Mark is a bit non-descript when it comes to the cloud which just hangs around above them for a while, in Luke it sounds like a real pea-souper. Assuming that they didn't sprout wings and fly up into the cloud, they must have walked into it - so it wasn't above them at all, but was at ground level and therefore all around them.
Now get this. Here they are in the cloud, when the voice comes out of the cloud. Does this mean that the cloud suddenly shrank to about the size of a sheet of bed linen rolled up, or were they magically moved outside of the cloud and then heard the voice?
Do Christians ever wonder about these stories?
Peter, James and John were told not to tell anyone of what they had seen, until after the resurrection. If they did, then why isn't this recorded in the gospels?
These are the three accounts of the Transfiguration -
Matthew 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Matthew 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Matthew 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Matthew 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Matthew 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Matthew 17:6 And when the disciples heard [it], they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
Matthew 17:7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
Matthew 17:8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
Matthew 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
Mark 9:2 And after six days Jesus taketh [with him] Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
Mark 9:3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
Mark 9:4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
Mark 9:5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Mark 9:6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.
Mark 9:7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
Mark 9:8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.
Mark 9:9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
Luke 9:28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
Luke 9:29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment [was] white [and] glistering.
Luke 9:30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
Luke 9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
Luke 9:32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.
Luke 9:33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.
Luke 9:34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.
Luke 9:35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him
Luke 9:36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept [it] close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen
So in Luke 9:36 they told no man in those days of what they had seen. In which case how did the scribe get hold of the story?
Maybe they went and told it to the Trees?
We also have something of a contradiction. In Matthew and Mark they were wide awake all the time, and not only awake, but frightened out of their silly minds. That makes sense - just think about it. If you are scared stiff would you then just lie down and have a good kip? Not on your Nelly. You would more than likely be half way down the hillside before the spooks (Moses and Elijah) looked at them.
Yet in Luke 9:32 they just decided to have a bit of a sleep.
I am also puzzled by this cloud. In Matthew the cloud is bright and overshadows them - this sounds a bit contradictory for a start. But let's suppose that it was something like a blurry UFO hovering above their heads.
Well, while Mark is a bit non-descript when it comes to the cloud which just hangs around above them for a while, in Luke it sounds like a real pea-souper. Assuming that they didn't sprout wings and fly up into the cloud, they must have walked into it - so it wasn't above them at all, but was at ground level and therefore all around them.
Now get this. Here they are in the cloud, when the voice comes out of the cloud. Does this mean that the cloud suddenly shrank to about the size of a sheet of bed linen rolled up, or were they magically moved outside of the cloud and then heard the voice?
Do Christians ever wonder about these stories?