Issue #117-JM Publishes Tract Attacking BE's Pamph

Biblical Errancy Issue #117-JM Publishes Tract Attacking BE's Pamphlet: Bible is God's Word? (Point 1), Reader Vs. Mormons

Nov 10, '08 5:17 AM
by Loren for everyone






Issue No. 117


September 1992



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With this month's commentary we will continue the listing of God's shortcomings in the Bible that was begun in the June issue.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



GOD


(Part 3)

HE LOSES HIS TEMPER. Even though Job 5:2 says, "For wrath kills the foolish man, and envy slays the silly one" God often loses his composure. The following are good examples:
•"...the Lord may turn from the fierceness of his anger...." (Deut. 13:17).
•"The anger of the Lord was hot against Israel and he sold them into the hand of Mesopotamia's king...." (Judges 3:8).
•"...the Lord shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them" (Psalm 21:9).
•"again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel...." (2 Sam. 24:1).
•"...he made Israel to sin, to provoke the Lord God of Israel to anger with their vanities" (1 Kings 16:26).
•"...the Lord revenges, and is furious; the Lord will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserves wrath for his enemies" (Nahum 1:2).
•"the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel...." (2 Kings 13:3).
•"the anger of the Lord was hot against Israel" (Judges 2:20).
•See also: Ex. 32:10, Num. 11:1, 16:46, 32:13-14, 1 Kings 14:9, 15:30, 16:2, 16:7, 16:13, 2 Chron. 34:25, Psalm 18:7, and Jer. 44:6.

HE IS OFTEN JEALOUS.
•"...I the Lord thy God am a jealous God...." (Deut. 5:9, Ex. 20:5).
•"For the Lord thy God is a jealous God among you...." (Deut. 6:15).
•"How long, O Lord? Will you be angry forever? How long will your jealousy burn like fire?" (Psalm 79:5).
•"For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken...." (Ezek. 38:19).
•"God is jealous, and the Lord revenges...." (Nahum 1:2).
•"Thus says the Lord of hosts; I was jealous of Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury" (Zech. 8:2).
•See also: Ex. 34:14, Deut. 4:24, 29:20, Psalms 78:58, Ezek. 16:38, 36:5-6 and Joshua 24:19.

HE IS NOT EVERYWHERE or OMNIPRESENT. Even though Jer. 23:24 ("Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth?") and Psalm 139:7-12 say the Lord is everywhere, the following verses say he is not.
•"Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden" (Gen. 4:16).
•"the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men built" (Gen. 11:5).
•"he said to Balak, Stand here by thy burnt offering, while I meet the LORD yonder" (Num. 23:15).
•"...the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake: and after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire...." (1 Kings 19:11-12).
•"I, the Lord, will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know" (Gen. 18:21).
•"So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord" (Job 1:12 and 2:7),
•and "Jonah rose up to flee to Tarshish from the presence of the Lord...." (Jonah 1:3).
•Also note: Gen. 17:22, 18:33, Ex. 11:4, 20:24, 25:8, Deut. 33:2, Psalm 9:11, 10:1, 14:2, Jer. 23:39, Hosea 11:9, Joel 3:17, Hab. 3:3.

HE DOESN'T KNOW ALL. Even though Prov. 15:3 ("The eyes of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good") says god sees everything that goes on, the following verses deny his omniscience.
•"the Lord God called to Adam, and said to him, Where art thou?" (Gen. 3:9).
•"the Lord said to Cain, 'Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast?" (Gen. 4:6).
•"the Lord said to Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?" (Gen. 4:9).
•"Then the Lord said,...I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know" (Gen. 18:20-21).
•"Remember how the Lord your God led you all the way in the desert these forty years, to humble you and to test you in order to know what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commands" (Deut. 8:2).
•"you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul" (Deut. 13:3).
•"The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God" (Psalm 14:2).
•"This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Have you come to inquire of me? As surely as I live, I will not let you inquire of me, declares the Sovereign Lord" (Ezek. 20:3).
•Also note: Gen. 22:12, Num. 22:9, 2 Chron. 32:31, Hosea 8:4, Amos 9:3, and Jer. 32:35.

Yet, God does know all according to Prov. 15:3 which says, "The eyes of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good."

HE REPENTS. Even though 1 Sam. 15:29 ("the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent") says that god never repents, the following verses say the opposite.
•It repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart" (Gen. 6:6).
•"...the Lord repented of the evil which he though to do unto his people" (Ex. 32:14).
•"...the Lord repented that he had made Saul king over Israel" (1 Sam. 15:35).
•"The Lord said, It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king...." (1 Sam. 15:11).
•"...that I the Lord God may repent of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings" (Jer. 26:3).
•"If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do to them" (Jer. 18:8),
•and "...for I repent of the evil that I have done to you" (Jer. 42:10).
•Also see: Deut. 32:36, Judges 2:18, 2 Sam. 24:16, 1 Chron. 21:15, Psalm 106:45, Jer. 15:6, 18:10, 26:13, 26:19, Amos 7:3, 7:6, Jonah 3:9-10, Joel 2:13, and Hosea 11:8.

HE PRACTICES INJUSTICE. Even though Deut. 32:4 ("He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he") says God is just and fair, the following verses prove the opposite.
•"Then say to the Pharaoh, This is what the Lord says,: Israel is my firstborn son, and I told you, 'Let my son go, so he may worship me,' But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son'" (Ex. 4:22-23).
•"The Lord is longsuffering, and of great mercy...visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children unto the 3rd and 4th generation" (Num. 14:18).
•"A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to the 10th generation shall he not enter...." (Deut. 23:2).
•"Thy son and thy daughters shall be given unto another people...." (Deut. 28:32).
•"When Achan son of Zerah acted unfaithfully regarding the devoted things, did not wrath come upon the whole community of Israel? He was not the only one who died for his sin" (Joshua 22:20).
•"because by doing this you have made the enemies of the Lord show utter contempt, the son born to you will die" (2 Sam. 12:14).
•"During the reign of David, there was a famine for 3 successive years; so David sought the face of the Lord. The Lord said, 'It is on account of Saul and his blood-stained house; it is because he put the Gibeonites to death'" (2 Sam. 21:1).
•"if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel" (Ezek. 14:9).
•"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned...." (Rom. 5:12).
•"Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam...." (Rom. 5:14).
•For additional examples of divine injustice in action see: Gen. 9:25, 12:17, 20:6-7, Ex. 12:12, 12:29, 21:29, Lev. 5:17, 12:2,5, 15:19, 19:20-22, 21:14, Num. 5:27, 20:7-8, 11, 23-24, 28, 21:4-6, 35:15-18, 35:25, Deut. 19:11-12, 21:18-21, 25:11, 28:53-55, 59, 32:25, Joshua 7:11, 1 Sam. 2:33, 6:19, 2 Sam. 6:6-7, 24:15-17, 1 Kings 11:11-12, 13: 17-19, 24, 14:15-17, 16:34, 20:35-36, 20:28, 34, 41-42, 21:21, 21:29, 2 Kings 21:16, 17:21, 1 Chron. 21:1, 7, Ezek. 21:3, Matt. 13:12, and Rom. 9:13-16, 18-20.

HE PLAYS FAVORITES. We are told in Deut. 10:17 and 16:19 that "the Lord your God is God of Gods...which regards not persons" and we are told in 2 Chron. 19:7 that, "...there is no iniquity with the Lord our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts." Yet, that is clearly disproven by the following comments.
•"For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God has chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth" (Deut. 7:6, 14:2).
•"the Lord will not forsake his people for his great name's sake: because it has pleased the Lord to make you his people" (1 Sam. 12:22).
•"For thy people Israel didst thou make thine own people for ever; and thou, Lord, became their God" (1 Chron. 17:22).
•"Thou art my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away" (Isaiah 41:9).
•"my people shall know my name...." (Isa. 52:6).
•"I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains; and mine elect shall inherit it...." (Isa. 65:9).
•"You only have I known of all the families of the earth...." (Amos 3:2).
•"But Jesus answered and said, 'I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matt. 15:24).
•"...for salvation is of the Jews" (John 4:22).
•Favoritism is also evident in Gen. 4:4-5, 12:1-3, 13:14-15, 35:12, Ex. 2:25, 11:7, 19:5-6, Lev. 26:3-12, Deut. 4:40, 7:14, 28:1-13, Joshua 24:13, 1 Kings 3:12, 8:53, 2 Kings 13:22-23, 2 Chron. 1:1, 12, Psalm 138:6, Isa. 43:1, 5, 45:4, 51:2, 16, 63:8, Haggai 2:23, Mal. 1:2-3, Matt. 10:5-6, Luke 1:13, 6:20, Acts 10:40-41, 13:19, 16:6-7, Rom. 1:16, 2:9-10, 9:4-5, 9:13, 11:5, 7, and 1 Peter 2:9.



(TO BE CONTINUED)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



DIALOGUE AND DEBATE

Letter #508 from Jerry McDonald of Sullivan, Missouri (Part a)
[Jerry is the fundamentalist Director of Challenge Publications in Sullivan, Missouri. A couple of months ago he sent us a booklet published by him entitled STILL A PERFECT WORK OF HARMONY which is subcaptioned: A Critical Examination of Dennis McKinsey's Tract: "It Is God's Word?" As part of his introduction he says, "It will be our purpose to examine each and every objection that Mr. McKinsey produced in his tract and show that they can be answered." Jerry is going to systematically refute our pamphlet when he can't even get the title correct. It's proper name is: "The Bible Is God's Word?" After reading the booklet one can't help but conclude that he is another one of those Johnny-Come-Latelys who race onto the confrontational scene, thinking they are going to blow us away with an arsenal of pop guns and water pistols. Nearly all of his rationalizations are little short of pathetic, and expose a "defend the book at all costs" mentality, that is so typical of those who have been indoctrinated, usually from birth. Let us now analyze his "defense" of this "perfect work of harmony"--ED.]

(Point #1 in our pamphlet was: If you must accept Jesus as your Savior in order to be saved (John 14:6), what about the billions of beings that die as fetuses, infants, mental deficients, etc.? For them to accept Jesus would be impossible, so they are condemned to hell because of conditions over which they have no control. Deut. 32:4 says God is just, but where is the justice?"--ED.)

Jerry's Defense is: Mr. McKinsey assumes that John 14:6: "...I am the way, the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me" is saying that every human being must come to him in order to be saved. When one takes into consideration the totality of Biblical teaching on this matter the problem disappears. Jesus was speaking of those who are of age, and mentally capable of sin. The reason for coming to Christ is to have one's sins washed away (Acts 22:16). Since fetuses, infants, and those mentally deficient have no sin in their lives, they do not fall into the category of John 14:6.... Those who are mentally deficient are as innocent as little children because they are incapable of sin. Why? Because sin is transgression of God's law by those who have the capacity to know right from wrong (James 4:17; 1 John 3:4). Therefore, Mr. McKinsey's objection is without merit.

Editor's Response to Letter #508 (Part a)
My advice to any biblicist who sees this problem coming down the road is to flee to the hills in terror. Run for your life and don't look back, unless you don't mind being eaten alive. Your response is dripping with mistakes, Jerry.

First, the verse says "no man", period. It does not say "some men", "most men", or "many men". It says quite clearly "no man", and that includes everybody. No exceptions are allowed. That is what it says; no assumptions are involved. Other verses can be cited for corroboration. John 3:18 says, "He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God"; John 3:36 says, "He that believes on the Son has everlasting life; and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him," and 1 John 5:12 says, "He that has the Son has life; and he that has not the Son of God has not life." That is about as clear as one can be and about all that can be said on that matter. There are no extenuating circumstances. What would you have had the man say in order to make that point crystal clear? How would you have had him phrase it?

Where does it say that only those who are of age and mentally capable of sin are included? Are we going to read the verse as is or as you would like it to be? All you are doing is resurrecting the old "Age of Accountability" nonsense, which has no biblical basis whatever. From your perspective it would be nice if the Bible contained this concept, but, alas, your own book drowns you. You talk as if the book were rational and permitted obvious exceptions, when that is by no means the case.

Second, you need to reread your own book, my friend. When you say that, "fetuses, infants, and those mentally deficient have no sin in their lives," you clearly demonstrate an ignorance of Scripture. Rom. 5:12 says, "Wherefore as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." Notice it says "have sinned." It does not say people inherited from Adam the capacity, inclination, or propensity to sin; it says they, in fact, sinned. It was a completed event.

Third, in the same vein you completely ignored verses which clearly say that there are no sinless people, even at birth. Psalm 58:3 says, "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies." Note well! They "go astray as soon as they be born." Job 14:4 says, "Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one." Contrary to Scripture, you would have us believe that every baby and fetus is clean. Job 15:14 says, "What is man, that he can be clean? Or he that is born of a woman, that he can be righteous?" Even Jesus said in Mark 10:18, "Why call thou me good? there is none good but one, that is God." According to you, all babies and fetuses are good and yet to be sinners. Sorry, but that is not scriptural.

Fourth, you say that "sin is transgression of God's law by those who have the capacity to know right from wrong" and quote 1 John 3:4 ("Whosoever commits sin trangresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law") to prove your point. In truth, it proves nothing of the sort, because no qualifiers are involved. Where is there the slightest reference to "those who have the capacity to know right from wrong"? It simply says that sin is the transgression of the law. Nowhere does the verse imply, much less state, that one must have a capacity to know right from wrong. Transgression alone is sufficient. According to Romans, sin accompanies the very act of being conceived.

And lastly, you cite James 4:17, which says, "Whoever knows what is right to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin." This verse does not say you must know right from wrong in order to sin. It does not say only those who know right from wrong can sin. It says those who know right from wrong know when they have sinned. You don't have to know right from wrong in order to sin. Moreover, if it did, Jerry, you would only be exposing a biblical contradiction between this verse and those I cited earlier. One does not take precedence over the other. They are both scripture.



(TO BE CONTINUED)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------








LETTERS TO THE EDITOR

Letter #509 from NS of Richmond, Indiana
(NS is employed at a city newspaper--Ed.)
Dear Dennis.
I finally received your Biblical Errancy yesterday, which is earlier than usual!.... I put another "Letter to the Editor" in our April 15th issue of the paper...and really got a lot of response. Much of it was over the phone inquiring who "Beverly Overman" (my pseudonym--Ed.) was, where she lived etc. Of course, my boss at the paper revealed nothing. I have a feeling every Overman in the phone book has been called, but they must wonder what is going on. I have this terrible urge to call them and ask if there are any messages for Beverly! The letters have been about equally divided. Some are sarcastic and bitter...and others are from people with at least a smattering of intelligence. These will all be answered personally, not via the paper, as I feel it could go on forever, and my boss might get a wee bit upset. I am fortunate he feels much the same as I do, and enjoys this immensely, but probably would be a social outcast if he admitted publicly to these views.... This has been a wonderful opportunity for me to really research the Bible on my own and not depend on you to do my work for me. I must admit, however, that you are a good guide and starting point, and I have quoted you on several occasions. This is the most fun I have had in ages, and is a terrific learning experience. Never let it be said you are too old to learn, for I am learning with your help, to back up the knowledge that the Bible is indeed an errant book....

Letter #510 from RM of Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
Dear Dennis....
I have a couple of Mormon "Elders" on the run right now. I used some of your quick references for the Book of Mormon, and combined it with my materials, i.e. photocopies of their false prophecies and contradictions between their prophets and their scripture books. They are supposed to return soon with their analysis/answers. I'm quite ready for it, so it should prove interesting. I have debated with Mormon elders and bishops before. They always run when Mormon doctrines are pushed to their logical conclusions. I want to keep these "Elders" as long as possible so that the information will "seep in" more and more. It's a kind of "cat and mouse" game. I "nail" the facts down; they run from the fray and come back with their "answers"; I demolish the key arguments and offer a challenge, i.e., "Prove that my material and quotes are false or non-existent and I will join your church. If my research stands and my material is accurate, be honest and admit it. Of course, if you're truly honest, you will leave the church organization you're in when you find that my arguments are undeniably correct. If you disagree with me, prove that I am wrong. Just don't ignore it! I challenge you to follow this course of action through to its final conclusion. Let's shake on it." At this juncture, after I have given them my favorite arguments and materials, they usually leave, never to return again. I know they can't disprove my contentions, which go to the heart of their belief system. Hence, I see them for the frauds they are. Their "truth" can't take the real truth. Still, they often insist that they have the truth. Some come out of their false system. The others, like most christians, ignore reality and continue under their delusion, in spite of the fact that it has been systematically disproven. This is typical of religious professors. This dishonesty never ceases to amaze me. I hope I can keep these "Elders" a little longer. It's always fun watching them squirm over my questions, etc. Is it as much fun for you? I'm sure you get quite a "kick" out of it. As you have told me on the phone a few times, they generally run for the door. It's the same here. I just wish I knew some way to keep them long enough to face the facts and deal with them. Got any suggestions?

Anyway, keep up the great work you are doing with BE. If you feel like using more material against the Book of Mormon or the Koran in BE, please do. Their seems to be a growing need for it. Especially where the Koran is concerned. By the way, do you know of any books that expose Islam? It seems to be the most untouched religion around. I can't seem to find even one book that really deals with it. If you have time, please respond. Thanks again.

Editor's Response to Letter #510
Dear RM.
You are doing a great job. Keep it up. I, too, have had some difficulty in finding anti-Koranic material. Perhaps our readers can be of some assistance? Most of what I have found is Christian propaganda, which is often of little use to me.

Letter #511 from TG of Arlington, Texas
Dear Dennis....
A final thought: I find it curious that unbelievers are expected to read and study the bible before rejecting it, while believers are under no similar obligation to read the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, and the mountain of secular writings that exist, including BE, before they can responsibly reject them. Your anonymous correspondent from Dayton, Ohio, for example, calls unbelievers "lazy" if they don't read the bible. But has this JB individual read Hume's Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion, Russell's Why I Am Not A Christian, Ingersoll's Some Mistakes of Moses, or Huxley's Some Controverted Questions, to name just a few? If he hasn't, then it ought to be clear who's "lazy".

Editor's Response to Letter #511
Dear TG.
Your point is well taken. There is something of a double standard involved, isn't there. I seriously doubt he has ever heard of them, much less read them.

Letter #512 from DV of Government Camp, Oregon
Dear Dennis.
The work you are doing is excellent. You should publish it in book form. I would love to own more examples of your clear thought on biblical idiocy! I want to support your work.... Keep hammering at the ignorance of the Christian masses! (or any masses!).

Letter #513 from JW of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma Dear Dennis.
... you have told your readers for years that the best attack was from within. That is, finding errors in the Bible which is the very foundation of fundamentalist beliefs. A story for you. I have a friend at work who is always trying to win converts over, and since I let it be known that I think the Bible is so much bunk, I am usually a target for the "soul-savers". This friend was recently talking about how Christ rose from the dead to give us salvation for our sins. I immediately said, "Hey, a lot of people rose from the dead in the Bible, so what is the big deal about that?" His reply was, "Well, they rose because Jesus made them rise." I answered, "Not so, and I will look it up for you." I went to Issue #8, and found the list you had prepared of those rising from the dead. I typed it into my computer, and made a printout, which I am enclosing. When I gave it to him, it angered him, so I asked him, "Why do you get angry when I am only telling you what is in the Bible? You profess to believe in the Bible. Do you believe in it or not?" This left him totally frustrated, but he did cool his anger, because I had only quoted to him what he professed to believe--the Bible. It works every time.

Dennis, I am not kidding you, you need to compile all of your BE issues into a well organized book which will totally destroy the Bible as anything more than a bunch of old Jewish stories. I will buy a bunch of them. Do it before someone else does. You are the authority--do it--please!

Editor's Response to Letter #513
Dear JW.
Thanks for your kind compliments, but I just don't have enough time to work on a book. Scores of people have recommended to me that I write some kind of tome, and someday I hope to do just that. But right now I have other, more pressing irons in the fire, which will be discussed in due time. As I mentioned some time ago, anyone who has read every issue of BE has, in effect, read the equivalent of several books. So an abundance of literature is available, and that is what really matters. What is sorely needed is Audio-Visual material, and that is a shortfall we are now seeking to fill.

Letter #514 from MS of Munster, Indiana
Dear Dennis.
You are doing a wonderful job by publishing BIBLICAL ERRANCY. But it would be much easier to read if you would print it on a better printer. Great improvements have been made on printers in the last few years. Ink jet printers like the one I am using now, or laser printers, which are even better, are no longer expensive. And they are faster and quieter. Give it some thought. Best Wishes.

Editor's Responset to Letter # 514
Dear MS.
We have already studied this issue and, as you might expect, the problem is cost. We occasionally receive suggestions on improvements we could make in the layout of BE, but they are rarely accompanied by funds to cover the associated expenses. My response is not meant to be flippant, but there is a real problem with finances at all times.

Letter #515 from JG of Cincinnati, Ohio
....Please keep up the good work. I still think you have the most rational biblical challenge in the country today and continue to hope you get the broad coverage recognition that you still don't have but justly deserve.

Letter #516 from HS of Honolulu, Hawaii
Dear Dennis....

While I subscribe to a number of periodicals, I can say that yours is the only one I read from cover to cover each time it arrives.... Needless to say, I enjoy BE and wish you all the best for the future.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: BE subscribers whom others can contact are: Jim Hopkins, White Horse Pk. and Collings Ave., Sutton Towers Apt. 405B, Collingswood, New Jersey 08107\\\\\/////Clark D. Adams, P.O. Box 7681, Athens, Georgia 30604-7681\\\\\/////John C. Parker, 244 Williams St., Meriden, Conn. 06450\\\\\/////Ray Mills, #301 5715 56th Ave., Red Deer, Alberta Canada T4N-4P7\\\\\/////Mick Conners, 112 S. 5th Street #l231, St. Charles, Missouri 63302
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We would like to have the following information from everyone who has had his or her name and address published in BE. What kind of contacts and information have you received from others, especially from those opposed to our cause?